Last Updated on August 5, 2015
The following is some discussion I’ve had with Albert over at The Urban Monk…
I post it here as Part Two in an exploration of a new perspectives on Ego. Click here to read Part One.
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June 17th, 2007 at 6:22 PM
Thanks Albert for sharing as you do.Interesting I should stumble upon this blog entry on becoming egoless, for in the last few months I’ve been realising another perspective on the ego that differs from the one I’ve been familiar with.
The perspective I have been familiar with is the one most prevalent in most of the so-called “New Age” and many “old-age” spiritual traditions and views on the nature of the human being, reality, etc. This is the one that describes ego as some sort of mistake (mis-take) and implies it has a separate existence from who and whatever we (as humans and consciousness) are. Like it is some kind of entity in its own right… or at the least some kind of separate “thing” within the human consciousness. It’s as if we are all suffering from multiple personality disorder. Yet do all these multiple “parts” really exist in the way most people think they do?
On one level the status-quo perspective on ego has rung true, to a degree… it’s made sense. Yet, I’ve also had this inkling inside that says “hang on a minute, in the perfect Unity of all that is where is there room for this mad ego that is apparently running amuck?”. Infinity knows no error.
Ego is derived directly from the Latin word of the same spelling. It refers to the “I”. We say “I” in English, where one would have said “ego” in Latin.
In my experience the ego is not something we can overcome or get rid of. This is further misperception. Rather it is about expanding my sense of “I” to be more inclussive to the vast infinity that my limited sense of “I” (my limited sense of ego) typically relates to. It’s also commonly proposed that one can enter into a state of self-lessness. Yet that is not my experience. I have realised it is more accurate to say that one can expand their sense of self to a point that is so inclusive of what was previously perceived as “other” and “non-self” that the perception of the self as an independent entity separate from the rest of all-that-is dissolves. If I eradicate the self — or the ego — what is it that remains to say it is so; to know it is so? What is it that has eradicated the ego or the self?
There is, in my experience, an essential I-ness within, and I feal this “I” is the same “I” in you, and me, and the same “I” that some people refer to as “God”. The I that I Am is the “I” that is God.
Attempting to eliminate the ego is, I suspect, another ego-trip. It is again a limited sense of self/ego attempting to manipulate the experience of self and reality based on the perspective afforded to one from that limited sense of self. As far as I experience, in Truth, the Path of Freedom is one of becoming forever more inclusive. The “heart” (the spiritual heart centre) is the inclusive faculty within the Human. The rational / thinking mind is the reductive and deductive faculty. As the heart opens and integrates into the human experience, I have experienced that there is less and less a sense of this mad ego I must over come. Rather I have found that it was more a matter of expanding into a far vaster perception of That which is I.
Is it about human beings dropping their ego or is it really about human beings evolving (as we are) in such a way that what we experience as ego / I / self expands? And I don’t mean in some sort of ego-inflation and self-aggrandisement… no, what I refer to is at the level of the profundity of Man/Woman, not the superficial.
I will be exploring this in more detail on my blog some time soon.
With love and blessings…
Jonathan
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Albert Says:
June 17th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Jonathan, thanks for that great entry. It is brilliant! At the same time, I’m finishing off a post on some of what you’ve mentioned (removing the ego is actually more ego), but what you are saying on “Expanding” your consciousness and perception is admittedly new to me – I shall have to explore this.
I think you’ve just put a name to some of the experiences I’ve had in recent times – I’ve been discussing this expansion feeling with a few of my fellow bloggers but I have had nothing concrete yet – I still don’t know what exactly is happening to me – hence I’m sticking with what I’ve personally experienced with this blog. Once I consolidate that expansion thing I’ve been experiencing I’ll write about it. Thank you so much for that, I’ll be keeping a close eye on your blog for further insights. Thanks again!
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Jonathan Evatt Says:
June 17th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Albert,
Thanks for the affirming and passionate response.
As I read your reply, the following analogy came to mind.
The human ego in its current state of e-volution (energy spiralling forever outward as form manifestation, and inward as awareness) is like a seed. To the external observer the following process can be seen: The seed dies to the germ within the seed as it begins to germinate (which takes place under the right conditions of moisture and temperature). The germ dies to the seedling. The seedling dies to the sapling. The sapling dies to the mature tree. The flower buds die to the flowers. The flowers die to the fruit. The fruit die to the seeds.
So, from one perspective, one thing dies to the next, just as we might say the ego dies to the true Self. One could also say the catepillar dies to make way for the butterfly.
Yet from another perspective the seed in fact already contains the tree. The seed already contains what is within the umpteen million seeds that tree will produce. Yet with each generation the potentiality of the seed evolves into something more aptly suited to the present conditions, as part of Life’s intelligent response to itself. Thus awareness evolves and expands. From this perspective the seed does not die (it is not got rid of), rather it simply incorporates from the formless side of Life (the unknown) a greater and greater expression of the Intention represented by this seed into the form side of Life (the known). The mature fruit baring tree is simply the full expression or manifestation of the potential inherent to the seed.
Our ego is like this too.
It is simply the seed of that fuller potentiality inherent to the hu-man being. We live on a planet we call Earth. Which is an anagram for Heart (we only have to put the tail round to the mouth of the word Earth to get that).
…….H
…T…….E
…..R…A
(The spiralling process I referred to earlier and also an ancient symbol for the mystery of life… the snake eating its own tail). [Ignor the dots… spaces didn’t work so well so put dots instead]
I shall enjoy reading more of your blog soon. Diner time now.
Arohanui,
Jonathan
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Albert Says:
June 17th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Hmm…you seem to be coming from a very different perspective…I mostly know the ego as a psychological construct, but you seem to be talking about it as more a metaphysical thing? Thank you for taking the time to type up such a great response, I’ll have to look more into it, as I am coming from a completely different perspective than you are.
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Jonathan Evatt Says:
June 19th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Yes, indeed. A different perspective.
Thanks for popping over to my blog at www.feal.org. Happy reading. My editor tells me there is 300 or so pages of writing on there.
From where I stand I would say that every “thing” we experience is a construct of one kind or another. We can call it a psychological one, and yet I am inclined to say that the human psyche is also a construct within the empty “space” of the Mind.
If I overcome or eradicate the ego, who is that knows this has taken place? Who is it eradicating the ego?
Further to what I have said already, as I typed the above and considered your above reply, I realised the following:
This “thing” we call the ego and experience as the ego is in fact some “thing” that within time and space (within the human scheme of things) has taken rather a long time to come about. It is the beginnings of the totality (call it God if you like) coming into an even fuller state of Awareness. As already mentioned, the “I” within me (and you) is ultimately the “I” of this totality we call God. I shall add that in my experience God is not an entity in its own right, independent and/or separate from you, me, and all that is.
This seed we experience as the ego has arisen out of the void into the form side of life. All the issues, problems, complexes, challenges, traumas, dysfunctions, etc. that we label and experience are in fact the very basis of our liberation into the Grand Perfection of all that is. These are not “things” to be fixed and/or got rid of, rather they are again the seeds of a vast and mysterious Power (one which most humans not yet even tried to fathom) coming into being — incarnating… stepping into the flesh.
From the lucidity of my True, Pure, and Omnipotent Nature there is no error. There is no faulty aspect within Creation that must be fixed or some how eliminated. There is an infinite perfection playing out… dancing through time, space, and beyond. Our human tendency to perceive that there is “something wrong with me”, which for the spiritual aspirant turns into “this ego and all that goes with it is an error I must correct or overcome”, this tendency arises out of out limited sense of self, our limited sense of ego or “I”.
For aeons I have watched people, and my own self, try to overcome these perceived human problems and conditions, and what we call ego. I’ve also seen beings of relatively great “spiritual accomplishment” (an oxymoron at best, but I think you know what I mean) — let us say these are people who are very conscious on many planes and of a great many spiritual/subtle realities — who were in my experience still being tripped up by a wounded and non-integrated human ego that had most likely been abandoned along the way side some where early on in their journey of spiritual awakening. It simply doesn’t go away. Human ego becomes spiritual ego. Human dysfunction simply becomes spiritual dysfunction. And that too is part of the journey into greater awareness. That too is part of the perfection. Yet that too is something I am equipped to discus and perhaps just one person will hear that discussion and something will click. The fight will end, and a new and more empowering battle will begin. The battle or challenge we were all Intended to face in the journey of Forever Expanding Awareness in Liberation.
With love,
Jonathan
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