If you have an interest in utilising freshly extracted juice as part of your health routine, this article is likely to interest you. It is a follow-on from one I wrote a month or two ago called Juicing tips and misconceptions in which I shared some information I posted to a review on Amazon.com for a blender people were using in place of a juice extractor. P. Elmore had some issues with what I said, and this article is my response to those issues. Read on to discover more about the importance of using the right equipment for juice extracting for great health.
(Here is a link to the discussion on Amazon reviews http://bit.ly/bijsps)
Hello P. Elmore.
Thanks for expressing your opinion and entering into discussion. You raise some interesting points which I would appreciate further clarification and discussion on:
<< Any long term “juicing routine” as you put it should include fiber. >>
- “Should”, according to who? And what is your particular intention with juicing? Personally, I get all the fibre I need from eating an abundance of whole, unrefined, unprocessed, fresh fruits, vegetables, and grains. I don’t drink fresh, raw, living juice as a source of fibre. I would be just as well off chewing the eating the ingredients. I add juice to my diet for the extra boost of living, raw, nutrients it provides.
<< The premise that you suggest in that juicers were meant for removing fiber so that you could consume much larger quantities of juice, is logical fallacy. >>
- Why else would one remove all that otherwise nutritious fibre?
Please explain the logic you base this opinion on. The points you have made below don’t, in my experience, adequately back this opinion up. For instance, you say:
<< pulverizing the pulp does not add much volume >>
- I wonder, have you never tried using a juice extractor? If you had, and if the device did what it was designed for, you would have noticed that there is a large amount of relatively dry fibrous material left behind – the very stuff that the original reviewer was referring to when he/she said “I felt that tossing all that pulp and fiber…”
In a typical juice I might put 6 or so large carrots, 2 to 3 apples, 1 to 3 beetroot (depending on size), a few handfuls of greens (kale, chard, beet tops, etc.), some fresh herbs like celantro and rosemary, and an inch or two of fresh ginger root. I may also add a whole lemon to that, and some fresh tumeric root, if I can get it. This makes a considerable amount of juice and a considerable amount of left over “fiberous” material. I will drink this over the course of an hour or two, pouring myself a glass as I want it. Now, to sit down and eat all that stuff, along with my usual meals… not likely. Perhaps your appitite is more ferousious than mine.
You also back up your opinion by sharing that in your view:
<< consuming large amounts of fruit and vegetable juice without pulp (read: fiber), would not be recommended by any accredited nutritionist. >>
- and I am wondering which particular accredited nutritionists you are referring to, and what experience they have with juice fasting and juicing based health protocols, and what success they have had with these protocols. I would also need to take into consideration the overall intention of the particular juicing / dietary protocols these “accredited nutritionists” you are familiar with are recommending. It sounds different from the many protocols I am familiar with.
Some of the points I made in my original comment were based on research I have done over the past 19 years into juicing and many other life-affirming approaches to human health and healing. There are many authoritative and experienced people backing up these views. One, for instance, is the late Dr. Max Gerson, M.D. I understand that juicing is a significant and important part of his cancer treatment protocol. You may like to read more about this at www.gerson.org. It is my understanding that his protocol specifically prescribes relatively large amounts of raw, living (rich in enzymes and nutritients) juice, without the pulp. The Gerson Institutes goes so far as to only use the Norwalk Press, which is perhaps the best possible juicer one can buy (costs about US$2400). Perhaps a bit extreme for general health maintenance, however, which is why I personally recommend the TwinGear one I posted links to. Dr. Norman Walker would be another person worth researching on this topic.
You say that,
<< Fiber is very important >>
- and I agree with you. However, I think it is a matter of ones intention when it comes to juicing. Perhaps you misunderstood my intention when it comes to juicing for health. Of course, we need fibre in our diet, and far more fibre than people eating a Standard American Diet (SAD) ever eat. But this is not the purpose of juicing as it is traditionally utilised for health and healing, as I have come to understand it in the past 19 years.
<< Also, there is no evidence that high speed blenders kill enzymes. >>
- My own experience suggests that oxidation occurs far more rapidly in juice that has gone through a centrafugal juicer, than one that has gone through a Tribest juicer (for example). I understand that the presence of living enzymes (in tact enzymes) is part of what keeps the juice from breaking down initially. Of course, just the exposure to steal will promote oxidation, as will exposure to heat. Enzymes, or not, the juice from a highspeed centrifugal juicer oxidises a lot quicker than that from a TwinGear juicer or a Norwalk Press (based on what I have read, as I don’t own such a press). There are studies suggesting that avaialble nutritents (vitamins, minerals, etc.) are also lower in juice that is extracted at high speed. I have a number of such studies on paper (my research into this predates the internet as a common means of research) back in NZ (currently in the USA). I have done a few searches online for you, however. You might find it interesting to read some of the material posted at http://www.greenstar.com/special.asp and http://www.greenstar.com/news.asp?ID=40
These links point to the site of the manufacturer of the Twin Gear juicer I recommended, and you may find issue with that. Do further research if that is the case.
<< If that were the case, then it would be a problem with juicers as well. >>
- (AN ASIDE -the BlendTec is not a “juicer” per say. It is a blender)
- Yes. Exactly. That was one of the points I was making. Most juicers, in my opinion, are relatively a waste of money, time, and fruits/vegetables when it comes to using juicing for helping the body to more rapidly sure it self of disease. That is why I referred people to a juicer that maintains a large amount of the nutritional quality in the juice it produces. I appologise if I did not make that point clear enough.
<< Those that say otherwise are among those like yourself that are trying to defend your investment in juicing machines, >>
- How, specifically, do you know that I am trying to defend my investment in a juicer?
<< Besides, if you are in for the occasional “juice only” drink, then you can use a high-speed blender to pulverize the fruit to extract the juice. Then, you can quickly pour and strain out the pulp for a quick juice drink. >>
- I would have to agree with you here. It would be quicker to make the occassional “juice only” drink using a fast blender, such as a BlendTec or a VitaMix Blender for that matter. I was not, however, referring to people juicing from this perspective. I was and am referring to the employment of a juicing routine for the sake of dramatically increasing the healing capacity of the body.
<< (BTW: You can do all of this much faster and easier with a high-speed blender than you can with the best juicer machine.) Meanwhile, the best juicing machines are still struggling to extract the juice (compared to high-speed blenders). Then, with a juicer, you still have to clean up a big mess with the pulp and seed. What a hassle and a mess! >>
- We agree on this point. However, I suspect those people wishing gain the most benefit from juicing for health will find that “mess” inconsequental relative to the further onset of whatever disease process is destroying their body.
<< You admit that you are “guessing” about how quickly carrot or apple juice may go brown right after high-speed blending, yet you do not cite any references to that statement. >>
- Please refer to the links above, and do your own research. I am specifically referring to my own experience. I said “guessing” because I am sitting here at my computer, 12 years after doing my testing of juice from different machines. So at best I am making a guess based on past experience from memory. I don’t wish to sound like I am stating emperical facts when I am not. I appologise if you have an issue with that. Last time I checked, I was taking the time to write this information on an Amazon review page, not a in a scientific journal. Different audience, different expectations.
<< In short, you are speculating at best >>
- Actually, I am sharing my own experience. Carrot juice from my juicer is still bright orange after 48 hours. It is still relatively orange after 72 hours. Juice from a typical juicer is going noticably brown after anywhere from 30 to 120 minutes. Apple juice from my juicer is also fresh in appearance and taste for at least 36 hours. Apple juice from a centrifugal juicer is, in my experience, starting to taste and look “brown” after about 30 minutes, and very much so after a few hours.
As for juice made with a BlendTec… Please run some experiements yourself and let us know the results. I get the impression you wish to be helpful to the community here, and I think that would be truly helpful.
<< and recommending juicing machines blindly at worst, only because this recommendation makes you feel better about your decisions to use juicing machines. >>
- Again, how exactly do you know what I am thinking and feeling? It amazes me.
<< ANY fruit or vegetable begins to lose nutrients once it is harvested from farms, so any browning you make reference to (even though it is highly speculative on your part), is still moot. The point is that you should buy fruit and vegetables at the last reasonable moment, and wait to blend OR juice any fruit and vegetables until the very last moment you can, either when you are about to consume it, or the latest time reasonable that fits with your schedule and lifestyle, in order to maximize nutrient consumption. However, those that are staunchly in favor of juicers over blenders should be more worried about nutrient efficiency and nutrient loss than on how “brown” a vegetable of fruit may become after juicing or blending. >>
- I agree with much of what you say here, and yet I think you have missed the point entirely.
All things remaining equal, if I make juice with Machine A and with Machine B, and the juice from A starts showing noticible signs of oxidation and deterioration after 30 minutes, and the juice from B shows none of this for at least 48 to 72 hours, it seems like a no-brainer to me. I appreciate that you feel differently, however, and have no desire to change you views. I do, however, wish to ensure that other people reading these reviews have a chance to take a fuller picture into consideration when considering these matters.
<< Nevertheless, much of the best nutrition from fruit is in the pulp and seeds, which is where no juicer machine can overcome. >>
- Please explain what your point is? Are you trying to say that a juice extractor does not extract what is in the seeds and that this is an issue? I fail to see why what is within the seeds is not going to be extracted. With regards to the pulp, I thought you had already identified above that what remains (primarily) in the dry pulp is the fibre, and I have already established that from a Juicing For Health perspective, this necessary dietary fibre is ideally obtained from a wholesome diet of fresh, whole, unrefined, unprocessed fruits, vegetables, and grains.
<< Also, simply consuming fruit juice for any lengthy duration would become very unhealthy, and it would put a significant strain on your pancreas. Pulverizing the pulp of fruit in a high-speed blender not only allows maximized nutrient consumption, it also provides fiber, which is critical to slow down the process of sugar in fruit when entering the bloodstream. >>
- I agree, that consuming large amounts of fruit juice without other factors to help balance the sugar intake is not ideal for most people. I have not suggested exactly WHAT people juice as part of their health program. There are plenty of good books on that topic.
<< It is for that reason, and because a blender and sieve can easily be used to separate juice from pulp anyway, that juicing equipment is obsolete >>
- This is, of course, an opinion you are absolutely entitled to. I am glad you have come to such a clear resolution for yourself.
<< Moreover, a high-speed blender can easily replace a juicer and a food processor at the same time. This is one of many reasons why the explicit use of juicing equipment makes absolutely no sense! >>
- Personally, I have a blender as well as my Twingear Juice Extractor. In my kitchen, each of these contraptions has its own purpose for which I think it is best suited for. When it comes to juicing fresh barly grass I use my twingear juicer. When it comes to making fresh, living, nut butters, I use my twingear juicer. When it comes to making juice, I use the juicer. When it comes to blending stuff up (such as making my smoothies, or salad dressings, etc.), I use a blender… specifically a Tribest Personal Blender because I travel a lot and find it very convenient. It is also super easy to clean, and takes up a minimal amount of bench space. A BlendTec would be better, I think, for larger volumes of blending though.
<< Juicers have been out much longer than most high-powered blenders, but we are seeing a major popularity shift towards high-powered blenders and away from juicers. That is not to say that all juicing is unhealthy. Those that juice are far better off than most people who simply do not eat enough fruit and vegetables. However, no reasonable person would anyone futz around with a juicer when they can use a high-speed blender like a Blendtec, to not only liquify fruit AND pulp, but also, use them to quickly make many other types of nutritious meals. >>
- The above closing statements, to me, feel very opinionated. I appreciate you have your opinions on this matter, and your own views on what a “reasonable person” is and what their views would be, and I feel there is very little else I wish to say to that.
Thank you for your contribution to the community of buyers here on Amazon.
There you have it. Some additional information on juicing. It would appear to me that the person I had this communication with is somewhat confused about the naturopathic approach to juicing for health. You may bump into people with such confusion yourself, or perhaps you have also wondered whether blended fruit and vegetables is as (or more) effective. I trust that this dialogue has helped clear that up, or at least prompted you to do futher research of your own.